Religious Education in Newark?

Posted on Aug 6, 2010 in Blog, Education

Religious Education in Newark?

Hi Everyone, today I found myself replying to a comment stream on the Local Newspapers website.

ECC Christian church is considering the prospect of starting a school founded on Christian principles offering an excellent standard of education.

Here is my last reply.  Click here to view the whole article.

“Dear adpikett, I am surprised that you have been so negative from the outset regarding this new school despite Mr Gareth Morgan’s assurance to provide an “excellent secondary school education” (including an excellent science education). It seems to me that your objection is lead by your religious and humanistic evolutionary convictions rather than your concern for the community or even education. May I remind you that this website is for those who wish to comment on whether setting up an excellent school in Newark is necessary/required and NOT how it affects your religious worldview (evolution)!

It appears that your comments were not just unhelpful but indeed insulting (see your post dated 23/07/2010 10:29am referring to Mr Gareth Morgan as “misguided amateurs”). As parents that were forced to send our children outside Newark for education, I welcome the idea of having a local school that focuses on excellence (in every area of the National Curriculum)!

“Earth is 4000 years old….”


Dear adpikett, regarding your comments that Christians believe that the “Earth is 4000 years old and dinosaurs died in Noah’s flood” (see your post on 23/07/2010 10:29am). Christians/Creationists DO NOT say that the Earth is 4000 years old nor do they say that all dinosaurs died in Noah’s flood (this is an argument that I would like to discuss in my debate offer below). However, my short response to this comment will be similar to YOUR response to JNicholas (see your post 26/07/2010): “If you are trying to prove a point, why not pick something that supports your argument?”. In this case I will add: Why not pick on something that Christians/Creationists actually DO say? By the way, even if Christians were to claim this, then please note what evolutionists teach: We all came from a ROCK! Here is what the textbook says: “4.6billion years ago the Earth cooled down [ROCK] and formed a rocky crust [ROCK]…Earth’s surface was hot [ROCK!] and there were large pools of bubbling lava [melted ROCK]…oceans formed as it rained on the rocks [ROCK] for millions of years…swirling in the waters of the oceans is a bubbling broth of complex chemicals soup to a living organism [from ROCK]” (Holt Earth Science 1994 p. 280 & 281). Sorry, I only have the American textbook version. I’m sure evolution took place the same way in USA as it did in the UK though – lol.

Please check your hypothesis before criticising other theories because it seems to me that you “strain at a gnat but swallow a camel” (Matthew 23:24) – lol.

By the way, I LOVE science! But evolution has NOTHING to do with science, it’s just a worldview. Having said that, please note that I don’t mind the teaching of evolution! I only mind when humanists promote the evolution theory as science. It’s nothing more than just a humanistic worldview (religion). Check out the religion of the Humanist Manifesto it spells out evolution!

“‘Christian’ group starting a school”


Dear adpikett, JNicholas said that “School and education as a whole in this country was started by the Church” (posted on 25/07/2010). In response you described JNicholas in your post 26/07/2010 as “disingenuous”. Again strong words adpikett! It sounds like you have a lot of religious anger and hatred stored. Perhaps evolution has not been very generous in providing virtues such as patients, love and kindness :). What JNicholas was trying to tell you was that the Christians started the school in this country. The original Greek word for Church was Ekklesia which meant “the called out ones” or “the body of Christian believers”. It was therefore the Christian believers who started education in most of Europe

(check out Wikipedia – History Of Education Europe and Wikipedia – History Of Education)

What’s even more interesting is that Edward VI (who YOU claim to have stared education as opposed to Christians) was a devout Christian – lol (History on the net). Therefore, once again, IT WAS THE CHRISTIANS WHO STARTED THE EDUCATION IN THIS COUNTRY AND ACROSS MOST OF EUROPE – Lol. What’s even more interesting is that it was mostly run by Bible believing Christians. Dear adpikett , I sincerely and politely ask you to refrain from insults in future contributions especially when you are not correct 🙂

“The world has about 2.5% atheist population”


JNicholas claimed that “The world has about 2.5% atheist population” on 25/07/2010. Dear adpikett, you appear to have objected strongly in your post 26/07/2010. Although I’m not sure what point you were making, I would like to explain this statement to you. “Atheist” means “Someone who does not believe in the existence of a god” (Oxford American Dictionary). Therefore, an atheist is a person who does not believe that God exists. Tell me something dear adpikett; how could ANYBODY know the non-existence of ANYTHING? In order for an atheist to be right, he/she/you will have to know EVERYTHING, not just in this dimension, but in ANY dimension within all time, space and matter. Therefore, by definition NO ONE can be an atheist, just agnostic. I wonder whether you call yourself an atheist. If you do, I recommend you convert to agnostic, it’s more accurate but just as inexcusable :). This is fun 🙂 I’ll keep going…

“Curriculum for England”


Dear adpikett, you accused the ECC (in your post 23/07/2010) that “They will NOT be teaching ‘discussion about various theories surrounding the beginning of our planet’ in their science curriculum”. I believe that you are mistaken. In fact I recommend that ECC teach all the various theories surrounding the beginning of our planet particular that of the evolution theory. It is important that the students know what scientific “evidence” exists that supports this theory :). They should be explained that it’s a theory and NOT a fact pointing out any empirical science that does or doesn’t support it. Students should be educated with the different available options and let them make their own choice with intelligence (not indoctrination). Don’t you agree?

“They keyword is not choice, its ‘legal requirement’”


Dear adpikett, you said in your post dated 23/07/2010 that the ECC “must teach evolution accordance with the National Curriculum for England that requires students at Key Stage 4 (14-16) to be taught…They keyword is not choice, its ‘legal requirement.’”. It appears that your humanistic intolerance is shining through again :). Please re-read the main article on this website which says “Free schools would not have to follow the national curriculum but would need to provide a broad and balanced education”. In case it was missed, it said “would not have to follow”. I hope the “legal requirement” is clear in this statement :). It appears to me that it is YOU who wants to force a religious worldview on students 🙁 Nevertheless, as explained above, I totally endorse the teaching of evolution (that you fear will be missed out) so that students are educated and not brainwashed by religious evolutionists who claim that this hypothesis (disguised as science) is a fact and confuse students.

“…creation stories are made up…”


Dear adpikett, on 29/07/2010 HumanTriangle’s asked “Maybe you can enlighten me on how the world really did come about and present it as undeniable fact and undisputable proof”. Your response on 30/07/2010 was “Maybe someone can give me any proof that a deity of any kind exists…”. It appears that you are missing the point here. Christians who believe the Biblical account of creation do not claim that it’s science (although science does not disprove it and in many case it supports it – check out www.halos.com). They are happy to accept and teach it as a faith and belief system. On the other hand, evolutionists will have us believe that this hypothesis of evolution is based on science and scientific evidence. That’s where I STRONGLY disagree because evolution is nothing but a humanistic worldview (religion). Therefore, the burden of SCIENTIFIC proof lies in your court. So, HumanTriangle does not have to prove God….but YOU, on the other hand, HAVE to prove your theory….or get rid of it (if science is what really counts). The fact that you responded to HumanTriangle’s request of proof as “no, not at this time” suggests that “at this time” we should only consider this theory as a faith (or indeed more accurately: religion), and certainly not science!

Offer for private/public debate


If you have the urge to respond to my comments (which I will welcome and look forward to), I am happy to continue on a more appropriate Internet website (privately or publicly depending on whether you are genuinely interested in knowing the true answers re Creation vs Evolution). Seeing this website is setup for the sole purpose of validating or discussing the benefits of opening a new school with high education standards, the subject of Creation vs. Evolution discussion would be inappropriate here. This way, it will not clutter this site with unnecessary posts.

Conclusion


I hope my post was received well as my intention was only to correct some inaccurate statements (deliberately or accidentally) made that were not very helpful for the cause of starting a new school.

Rest assured Mr Gareth Morgan is a very intelligent and educated person who has Newark’s interest at heart led by his strong convictions to do what is good and right. Having this school will only give more options for parents who simply wish to provide a better education for their children. I cannot imagine why anyone would object to it.

God bless you all, particularly adpikett”

God Bless,

John Harris

7 Responses to “Religious Education in Newark?”

  1. Great reply Mr Harris, Its good to see people fighting the right fight.

  2. I found the first sentence of your second paragrah, VERY ironic.

    “Our church ECC is considering the prospect of starting a school founded on christian principles offering an Excelent standard of education.”

    There should be a capital in, ‘Christian’. And there should NOT be a capital in excellent. And last time I checked, excellent is spelt with two L’s, not one.

    However, I’m sure you’ll provide a fantastic education to all those budding Christian kiddies out there.

    • Hey thanks for pointing that out Keith, its a good job i’m not a teacher :). Ill stick to IT and blogs for now.

      God Bless bro

  3. Some Sense Please says:

    Creationists need to go to a museum of natural history really badly. But I guess when you believe in a big man in the sky and that he sent his kid here to be tortured so that a bunch of hairless apes will be forgiven you’ll believe anything. Think about it. Only god can grant forgiveness but in order for us humans to receive it he has to kill his kid. His rules, not ours. What kind of a jerk does that? You’d worship a father who sees to it that his own son is tortured before his subjects are forgiven? It’s pathetic how little thought is put into the basic personality that drives god to do what he does and the fact of the matter is if you really think about god as a person he’d be a sociopath you’d put in prison.

    • Firstly, just so you know, I have personally visited the Natural History Museum about 2 weeks ago. There are many scientifically inaccurate information that are currently being prepared to be challenged. We/Humans have NEVER evolved and were NEVER apes to start with (this comment is not even valid from an evolutionary worldview).

      Regarding the rest of your comments, I’m afraid you appear to have made many assumptions about the “big man in the sky” and about the “hairless apes”.

      First of all you need to know who God is in order to understand why He HAD to allow His son to be “tortured”. The God of the Bible is a HOLY, JUST and PERFECTLY LOVING God! So what does that mean?

      Because He’s HOLY, He cannot tolerate sin. And, because He’s JUST He MUST punish sin. However, because He’s PERFECTLY LOVING He found a way to balance these two requirements and overcome the dilemma (ie of being HOLY and JUST). This is where Jesus comes into the scene. Jesus took the punishment so that we don’t have to! He was “tortured” for a very good reason!

      Think of God as a judge. A just judge cannot tolerate bad behaviour. In fact the more just the judge is, the less tolerant he can be in passing his sentence. Agreed? If God is HOLY and JUST at the same time, then His sentence DEMANDS zero tolerance. But His PEFECT LOVE also DEMANDS a way out. This is where Jesus willingly sacrificed (ie took the punishment) himself for our sake. But for us to receive the benefit of His action we must accept Him as payment for our punishment. Refusing to accept this sacrifice means that we will have to pay for it ourselves. God will give you the free will to accept this free gift because He is a HOLY, JUST and PERFECTLY LOVING God!

      As you can see, you have totally misunderstood God and your comments are not justified. I propose you do not insult the only hope you have to be saved from a well deserved eternal punishment!

      I hope this clears the matter for you. If any of the above is unclear to you, and require more information, please do not hesitate to post again.

      Regards
      John

  4. Some Sense Please says:

    I’ve been baptised and christened and have accepted jesus long ago. The bible doesn’t make sense, but that does not mean I don’t have faith. The notion of a heaven where souls go when we can look up with telescopes and see space, that we have made vehicles that can travel there makes the thought of a big man in the sky utterly ridiculous to any rational thinker who has seen the world with an open mind. I don’t know what the Natural History museum that you went to looked like but the assertion that man evolving from apes is not in the canon of virtually all of evolutionary science is a flat out lie borne of an ignorance that is so profound there can be no explanation for it other than it has to be actively maintained so sense doesn’t creep in.

    There is NO geological evidence of a great flood that covered the earth in 5.5 miles of water. There IS ample geological evidence that a meteor struck the earth 65 million years ago and triggered the K-T extiction. There is NO evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived together. There IS ample evidence that carnivorous dinosaurs who killed to eat (and therefore comitted sin long before Adam and eve were even around to commit the original one) existed going back for hundreds of millions of years.

    There IS, however, ample evidence that the bible was written by a bunch of middle eastern men in a time of such abysmal IGNORANCE that anything could be considered fact. The earth was FLAT. Getting bled regularly was HEALTHY. A device to make men fly was impossible. Demons actually existed and other such nonsense that has been disproven in modern times. There IS also actual proof (not evidence, but proof) that the council of Nicaea in A.D. 325 established Jesus as the son of god and that he was generally regarded as a simple prophet by christians before that meeting.

    So what’s a rational thinking christian to do other than have doubts and ask questions?

    Everything else I said was from the bible and it’s only the tip of the iceberg. How could a benevolent god let all the suffering children in the world suffer without doing anything about it? He can fix it but he wont. He’s a jerk sometimes. Plain and simple. This is my opinion through study of the bible and observation of the wold I live on. The bible is full of and contradictions and perversion and the only reason I know this is because I have actually READ it. I actually had MUCH more faith before I read the bible. Based on this, my opinion is not wrong. It is just different, and quite a bit better educated from yours based on your response.

    Because it’s different from yours you choose to say that I deserve damnation. How low of you. You judged me and said that I deserve damnation. Looks like I’ll be seeing you there and this is why:

    “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
    -Matthew 7: 1,2.

    You cleared nothing up, insulted my intelligence and said I deserved eternal damnation. How very christian of you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    -SSP

    P.s. About the rest of your letter. You know god so perfectly well do you? Rather than condemn me to hell why don’t you make like any JUST, HOLY, and PERFECTLY LOVING Judge and kill your kid so that I might be absolved? Do you think I haven’t heard this poor rationalization for the sacrifice of jesus before? Please. Mene Mene, Tekel, Upharsin.

  5. admin says:

    Allow me to apologise for the delay in my response.  Our admin notification system did not automatically advise me of your comments.  Yesterday, I stumbled across it by accident.
    I understand from your last comments that my previous reply did not help so I will try to answer each statement of your new post separately.  I hope my response will be more helpful this time.

    "I’ve been baptised and christened and have accepted jesus long ago"

    Baptism is something you do as an adult and as a result of accepting Jesus as your sacrifice for your/my sin. "Christened" (also known as infant Baptism) is not in the Bible nor is it Biblically endorsed, as a child is unable to make a decision or even understand the meaning of receiving Jesus as a substitute sacrifice for your/my sin.  Therefore, neither baptism (nor indeed christening) qualifies a person for redemption (ie delivery from sin).

    "The notion of a heaven where souls go when we can look up with telescopes and see space, that we have made vehicles that can travel there makes the thought of a big man in the sky utterly ridiculous to any rational thinker who has seen the world with an open mind."

    Not sure how "rational thinker who has seen the world with an open mind" has anything to do with what happens after death.  Whilst it’s true that no one knows what happens when we depart our bodies, it is, in fact, very close minded to limit the spiritual world with our worldly understanding.  Your comments appear to have assumed that we have a total grasp of time, space and matter in our dimension never mind in any other dimension (such as heaven).  But take comfort, we will find out soon enough when we get there 🙂  Certainly our understanding of what we consider "rational" thinking would not necessarily be applicable in another dimension.

    "I don’t know what the Natural History museum that you went to looked like but the assertion that man evolving from apes is not in the canon of virtually all of evolutionary science is a flat out lie borne of an ignorance that is so profound there can be no explanation for it other than it has to be actively maintained so sense doesn’t creep in."

    I must confess, this statement confuses me as I’m not sure whether you are endorsing or disagreeing with the evolution theory (bearing in mind your previous post).  Previously you appeared to be endorsing it (by referring to the fact that "Creationists need to go to a museum of natural history really badly" where they promote this theory AND by referring to people as "hairless apes").  However, now you appear to be referring to it as a lie.  For the purpose, of this post, I’ll assume you disagree with this theory.

    "There is NO geological evidence of a great flood that covered the earth in 5.5 miles of water."

    Pardon? Where do you get the idea of 5.5miles of water? I assume you are looking at the world today (mountains etc.) and assume it was always that way.  No, No, No!  During the global flood, mountains where not as high!  Many may have formed when the "fountains of the deep" were broken up or when mountains arose during the last months of the flood"
    (Psalm104:6-8.).  The Bible states clearly that the water was more than 15 cubits (20 feet) over the tallest mountain (Genesis 7:20). Seashell fossils have been found on top of mountain ranges all over the world.  The top of Mt. Everest is covered with sedimentary rock containing petrified, closed clams.  Since clams open as soon as they die, they had to have been buried alive to be petrified in the closed position. There was definitely a worldwide flood. The Bible says in Psalm104 that as the flood ended the mountains lifted up and the valleys sank down and the water hasted away.
    Today’s mountain ranges are well above sea level, but this was not the case before the flood.  If the earth were smoothed out, that is the mountains pressed down and the ocean basins lifted up, there is enough water in the oceans right now to cover the entire earth 8,000 feet deep (approximately 1½miles). All of the water ran off rapidly through the soft sediments into the ocean basins during the last few months of the flood. This would explain the rapid carving of features such as the Grand Canyon and the Bad Lands

    "There IS ample geological evidence that a meteor struck the earth 65 million years ago and triggered the K-T extiction"

    Which meteor are you referring to?  How was the age of the meteor (or impact date) determined?  Please provide empirical evidence showing the "K-T extiction"!  The sedimentary layers and buried fossils (whether fossilized or petrified) along with the rapid carving of features such as the Grand Canyon/Bad Lands is much better explained with the global flood model.  Having said that; could the impact of an object such as a meteor or comet etc. cause the fountains of the great deep to burst through? You should get the book "In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood, by Dr. Walt Brown" or checkout http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/PartII.html.  In fact the whole website is a good source of such information.

    "There is NO evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived together."

    Firstly, there is no evidence that dinosaurs are extinct.  How can ANYONE prove the lack of existence of ANYTHING? There have been at least 20,000 reported sightings and over 4,000 are documented.  You should start reading books like "Dinosaurs by Design by Duane T. Gish, Ph.D.", "Texas Tracks and Artifacts by Robert F. Helfinstine", "The Encyclopedia of Monsters, Daniel Cohen Dorset Press, NewYork Excellent Research". 

    "There IS ample evidence that carnivorous dinosaurs who killed to eat (and therefore comitted sin long before Adam and eve were even around to commit the original one) existed going back for hundreds of millions of years."

    According to the Bible, people and animals were vegetarians (Genesis 1:29).  After the flood, it all changed (Genesis 9:1-3).  There is actually no guaranteed way of telling whether an animal is carnivorous or not.  Even carnivorous animals do not need to eat meat.  A vegetarian lioness named "Littel Tyke" lived nine years and never ate meat (Creation Magazine March 2000, p22). 

    However, if evolution is true, then yes, sin existed long before Adam/Eve lived and therefore, sin did not come into the world through Adam/Eve.  I agree that this would totally contradict the Bible.  However, there is NO evidence of evolution or that dinosaurs existed "back for hundreds of millions of years".  In fact there is evidence that dinosaurs DID exist only a few thousand years ago.  Dinosaur bones have been found with blood cells in them and those bones that were tested using Carbon dating, show that they are only a few thousand years old.

    "There IS, however, ample evidence that the bible was written by a bunch of middle eastern men in a time of such abysmal IGNORANCE that anything could be considered fact."

    That’s interesting.  Doesn’t that make the Bible even more fascinating?  Amazing scientific truths have been written in the Bible that the people of that time couldn’t have possibly known, such as…..

    "The earth was FLAT"

    The Bible, said that Earth is round Isaiah 40:22.  It speaks of the circle of the Earth.

    "Getting bled regularly was HEALTHY."

    The Bible teaches that the life of a person is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11).  If they read this, they would have stopped bloodletting.  It was the "abysmal IGNORANCE" of men that lead to rejecting the Bible.

    "Demons actually existed and other such nonsense that has been disproven in modern times”

    Most people, who make this claim, actually believe in spirits and in the force of good-and-evil etc. but they still, strangely enough, have difficulties accepting the existence of demons.  But the Bible is clear on this subject.

    "There IS also actual proof (not evidence, but proof) that the council of Nicaea in A.D. 325 established Jesus as the son of god and that he was generally regarded as a simple prophet by christians before that meeting.”

    WHAT!?!  There are many verses in the Bible referring to Jesus as the Son of God or God well before that date.  The Bible is very clear as to who Jesus is.  Simply go to Bible Gateway and search for "Jesus God”.  The council of Nicaea merely established the doctrine of the Trinity!

    "So what’s a rational thinking christian to do other than have doubts and ask questions?”

    It is healthy to ask questions.  I encourage you to keep asking questions.  It is fascinating to see how God and the Bible are proven to be right time-and-time again.

    "Everything else I said was from the bible and it’s only the tip of the iceberg. "

    I hope you agree now (bearing in mind the above responses) that this statement is currently not applicable.

    "How could a benevolent god let all the suffering children in the world suffer without doing anything about it? He can fix it but he wont. He’s a jerk sometimes. Plain and simple. This is my opinion through study of the bible and observation of the wold I live on."

    God is not at all happy with the suffering of children in the world.  The problems we see in the world are as a result of sin and people rejecting God.  He is willing to do anything to fix it, including sacrifice himself (Jesus on the cross).  Man has free-will to decide to accept or reject this sacrifice.  The choice is ours but we pay the consequence of our decision.  I have already explained in my previous post why it is impossible to do it in any other way.  If you studied the Bible, then you already know this.  Therefore, unfortunately opinion doesn’t count.

    "The Bible is full of and contradictions and perversion and the only reason I know this is because I have actually READ it. I actually had MUCH more faith before I read the bible. Based on this, my opinion is not wrong. It is just different, and quite a bit better educated from yours based on your response.”

    There are no contradictions in the Bible.  Unfortunately, some translations are based on the Alexandrian manuscripts which have been badly translated introducing "contradictions”.  I encourage you to only use the translations based on the Textus Receptus manuscripts.   Therefore, before making such bold false statements about the Bible, I would like to propose that you read the book "’Errors’ in the King James Bible” that deals with all the so-called "contradictions”.  Be encouraged, the Bible is the infallible, inspired, inerrant Word of the living God.
    The reason why you may have had "MUCH more faith” before you read the Bible is probably because you believed in a different God.  Very often people have a perception of who God is because of the way they have been introduced to Him.   Sadly that does not speak very well of Christians who just introduce God as the one who loves and forgives, forgetting to mention that He is also Holy and Just and cannot tolerate sin!  New converts who read the Bible discover who He REALLY is and then complain that the God of the Bible does not suit them (or is not the same God) so they renounce Him.

     "Because it’s different from yours you choose to say that I deserve damnation. How low of you. You judged me and said that I deserve damnation.”

    Far from me to be the judge in this matter!  Only Jesus can be the judge.  I’m a sinner just like you.  The Bible says that one day He will return and that we will see Him sitting on his thrown on the right hand of God where we will all be accountable to Him according to His standard.

    "You cleared nothing up, insulted my intelligence and said I deserved eternal damnation. How very christian of you. You should be ashamed of yourself.”

    I hope you find this post clearer.  We all deserve eternal damnation but thanks to Jesus, He paid the price so that we don’t have to.  I am not ashamed to share the Gospel of Jesus that brings life and hope to you and me.

    "P.s. About the rest of your letter. You know god so perfectly well do you? Rather than condemn me to hell why don’t you make like any JUST, HOLY, and PERFECTLY LOVING Judge and kill your kid so that I might be absolved? Do you think I haven’t heard this poor rationalization for the sacrifice of jesus before?”

    Luckily, I don’t have to sacrifice my kid so that you might be absolved because Jesus did it.  Besides no other sacrifice would be acceptable!  Only someone sinless can pay the price of those who sinned otherwise who would pay for HIS sins.  Even if sacrificing my kid would absolve you, I still wouldn’t allow it because my love for you is not great enough.  However, the Bible tells us that God’s love IS great enough.  In fact, SO GREAT that He was willing to give up his Son for you and me.  THANK God and PRAISE God that He was willing and able to provide a solution otherwise it would have been hopeless for all of us (including the children who are suffering in the world).  Please accept Jesus as your sacrifice, He did what He can to save you.
    I hope this helps.
    John